>> well, john, you can definitely say that it was very violent. in fact, we're still trying to pin down the numbers. you know, as the algerian news agency said, 23 hostages were killed. 32 terrorists were killed. but that area was mined. and, in fact, the british foreign secretary just talked about that, that it was booby trapped. so as now they go in to clear it and make it safe, there is a lot that they may not know. and is still not a clear -- the operation is over, but it's not a cleared-out space. they could find things as they go through. let's listen to the defense secretary, leon panetta. he said it very well this afternoon. >> with regards to the numbers of americans, we are still trying to get accurate information about just exactly how many americans were located there and exactly what happened to them. >> and so that is really the key. everyone who had people in that location, at that plant, is trying right now. those countries are trying to find out exactly what happened to every single person who was involved. don, we -- at this poin